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Beware the Used Car Salesman

I can remember as a child when my father would go looking for a new vehicle. He liked to trade his vehicles in every three years to get a newer model or even something completely different. He would drag me along from showroom to showroom looking for that deal that was just right. Much to the salesman’s dismay, I would climb around in the vehicles, pushing every button and imagining that day when I would be purchasing my own car. Once I had all the blinkers on and tested every horn, I would wander outside to the used car lot. My father never bought used cars. I don’t want to imagine the amount of money he could have saved. He would look at them and scoff, “I’m not dealing with a used car salesman.”

At the time, I didn’t understand what he meant until I got older and had some horrible experiences first-hand. I have tried to pass these experiences on to young soldiers whom I see taken advantage of endlessly by these slick talking salesmen and the too good to be true deals.

When trading a player, fantasy football is no different from purchasing a car – every owner needs to be wary of the used car salesman my father so desperately avoided. They are everywhere, and they are always looking to make a deal, whether you’re looking or not. They send repeated trade offers for players you have no intention of trading, and your receiving package includes players they’re desperately trying to unload. Often times, they send these deals to every owner in the league in the hopes that someone will not do the due diligence and accept their offer.

What type of offers am I talking about?

The Two for One and Three for One Deals

These are very common and they will involve 2-3 mid-level players for a weekly producer. The hope is that you will value depth and be willing to give up those 18 ppg for multiple players who will score 10 ppg each. That’s 30 points versus 18 points and you just gained 12 points every week, right? Wrong. You probably already have players on your bench who will score 10-12 points per week and now you just have more of them. In actuality, you just lost 6 points per week and now have to decide which of the 10-12 point guys you are going to plug into your lineup. Here’s an example:

Team A Trades: Matt Forte (19ppg)
Team B Trades: Shonn Greene (12ppg), Santonio Holmes (11 ppg) and Johnny Knox (10 ppg)

Wow, that’s 43 ppg versus 19 ppg and big win for you! Not so fast.

Now, not all “two for one” or “three for one” player deals are like the ones above. There are some offers that involve multi-player deals that benefit both sides. However, the used car salesman will target your one player in exchange for his bench players.

The Future Draft Pick

This was already touched on in Tim Stafford’s article Start Up 101. After your initial draft, these types of offers will continue to be sent by the used car salesman. Instead, it will be reversed. They will monitor during the season the teams they project as likely to finish near the bottom. If they have a borderline player who blows up one week, immediately the offers will fill your inbox with them peddling this player for your first round pick in the following year’s rookie draft. Why? Because they know that it was an anomaly and the likelihood of continued performance at that level is minimal.

Need an example?

After week three of the 2011 season, the used car salesman sends the following offer to what he feels is the bottom three teams:

Team A Trades: Tim Hightower
Team B Trades: 2012 First Round Rookie Pick

If you don’t value draft picks highly and still feel you have a chance to turn your season around, you see through week three of the 2011 season that Hightower was averaging almost 18 ppg and being fed the ball in a system that has made household names out of obscure running backs in the past. What happens? Hightower is hurt again, and your team finishes a dismal 4-9 “earning” the third pick in the following year rookie draft you traded away.

It’s always best to wait until later in the season before you consider trading a future year’s draft pick away. Many things can happen during a season and numerous teams have started out poorly only to win championships. Don’t think you need to make a sudden move because you started 1-2 or 0-3.

Maybe You Just Don’t Get It Offer

If you ever open your email and see a two paragraph diatribe of why a trade makes sense for yourself and the owner proposing the deal, be afraid, be very afraid. If you have to be shown the door to this fantastic deal, odds are the lights were turned off by the owner proposing it.

What you do in response to offers like these is entirely up to you. Some people like to send equally outrageous offers back. Some return volley in the hopes that the used car salesman will possibly “see the error of his ways” and quit sending them. Unfortunately, once a horrible offer is accepted, it is just too tempting of a quick payoff for the professional used car salesman not to continue sending these types of offers. It is always best to review potential trades and even to discuss potential offers received and those that you intend to propose with other owners in alternate leagues whom opinions you trust.

As a Commissioner in two leagues, I challenge each of the owners to be creative and only propose offers they themselves would accept. That is the litmus test – if you would not accept the trade offer, why do you think the other owner would? In each of the leagues, there is likely a thread for owners to post “Horrible Trade Offers” received in other leagues. It is extremely amusing and actually draws people to the site during the off season to get a good laugh.

Not all offers of the caliber above are sent from the used car salesman. I’m sure I have sent some in the past due to basic ignorance at the time. As we grow, so should our abilities to formulate quality trade offers that make this wonderful hobby that much more enjoyable.

Happy Trading!

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tebow
10 years ago

you have no idea how true this is!

Aidan
10 years ago

Can only agree with that. I actually just started playing dynasty football, having joined my first 3rd year league only 2 months ago. I already got a handful of those offers, usually asking for one of my good players in exchange for half a dozen guys that aren’t even guaranteed to make an NFL roster this fall. Are you kidding me? Likely players that he just picked up from the waiver wire and now tried to sell as “soon to be starters”. Sometimes also involving draft picks where I would end up giving up 10-20 spots early in exchange for a couple late-round picks. Unfortunately there seem to be a few people that fall for this crap, as that notorius car salesman in my league already has one of the strongest rosters and plenty of present and future draft picks to go with it.
Be careful what you trade for, mates!

the clarion contrarian
10 years ago

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!! what are you doing messing with the carfox 😉

BB Wayne
10 years ago

What the hell man? Hope nobody from my league reads this article. Whatcha got? Whatcha got? http://bit.ly/ypCusr

"Slick Rick"
10 years ago

That’s me! I’m the used car salesman sometimes. I have an offer, seriously being considered right now where I give up Tampa Mike Williams, Peyton Hillis and 12 team draft pick 2.3 for Marshawn Lynch.

But I am actually trying to get Lynch back as I traded him right when he blew up for Ahmad Bradshaw, so I got burnt on that one, but thought it was a good deal at the time.

I admit to being the used car salesman, but it’s an aspect of dynasty that will not or should not go away. The title of this article should have been “buyer beware”. But like your father, in a way, when I was new to dynasty, I got burned by the used car salesman twice. Does it make it right for me to offer those deals? No. But the buyer also needs to do their homework and be aware as well…..

tidewaterjc
Reply to  "Slick Rick"
10 years ago

Agree Slick Rick – we all have a little “used car salesman” in each of us as it is part of FF… the professional used car salesman takes to new levels and each owner needs to do their own homework. Individual owners player rankings, preferences, and team make-up all play into trades also… it is what makes Dynasty that much more enjoyable.

Mike
Reply to  tidewaterjc
10 years ago

One mans junk is another mans treasure. Sometimes those 3 bums you’re offering may be 3 starters for somebody elses team

the clarion contrarian
Reply to  Mike
10 years ago

and that is exactly what I convincve them as I take arodg or julio jones 😉 that 1 guy cannot win a title for you but a deep bullet proof squad will 😉

Cyrus
Reply to  the clarion contrarian
10 years ago

I traded away two guys who were on my bench and the 2.03 for the 1.04 last year.

Ended up giving up Lynch, Gresham and the 2.03 for the 1.04 which was Ryan Williams.

I wasn’t trying to be the used car salesman, but it was a 3 for 1 deal, and I was the one who got burnt.

John
10 years ago

That was some very good advice. I have a contending team, thanks in part to this site so my draft picks have been late rounders. I’m the guy who poaches the draft picks from the teams that don’t look like they can contend and will likley have a high draft pick.

By the way love the above comment from the carfox I was kind of thinking the same thing Shhhhhhh!. lol

Daniel Yovanovich
10 years ago

Great article, I think the used car salesman is just a part of the Dynasty format…I try to always propose fair trades but I always get the Kyle Orton for your 1.07 request sent to me…lol…

KenH
10 years ago

JC …very good article! This could be used as a tutorial for those that are new to the Dynasty format! Maybe we do a video and powerpoint presentation for the newest DLF members as they register for the first time! This ‘education’ would help the newest members and teach them both how not to trade and how to deal with offers!
I am half-kidding but appreciate this article, particularly the ‘you just don’t get it’ part!
Good Job!

Eric
10 years ago

Enjoyed the article JC!

Some people seem to just love to trade for the sake of trading, seemingly without regard for the impact on their team. Always ask yourself How does this trade benefit my team? Does the other team have pieces that might set up a successful counter? There are 3 possible outcomes from any trade. 1) Both teams benefit 2)Your team benefits 3) Their team benefits. Used car salesmen are always offering you type 3 deals. The best trades are type 1 trades and success here can build long term trust that open doors for future trades. There’s nothing wrong with receiving a type 2 trade either,after all the only point to trading is to improve your team, but I’d never go after a type 2 trade with a hard sell. In fact type 1 trades are often reached by proposing a type 2 trade and making it clear that counters are welcome. Very few successful negotiators open with their best offer.

Jack
10 years ago

Yes. Honestly, please take this article down. No one needs to trouble themselves worrying about such things. To suggest there are participants in leagues that would sink to such depths is offensive to all FF players!!

Oh and I offered shown green, Peyton Hillis , and gerhardt to the Peterson owner for Arien Foster, and the fool said NO…

🙂

the clarion contrarian
Reply to  Jack
10 years ago

offensive …… hilarious blast dude

BradyT
10 years ago

There´s nothing wrong with trying to get the better end of a deal. Only sending proposals that are absolutely even or you´d accept yourself isn´t very realistic. I mean we are not in the kindergarten. Everybody has to know for himself if he wants to accept an offer or not. If the answer is no, there´s a simple option: REJECT IT!
If there´s an opportunity to make a good deal, you should take it.

Just look at the Rams-Redskins deal… almost every team would´ve taken it in place of the Rams, but I doubt alot of teams would´ve offered it like the Redskins did…(another real life example is the deal the Raiders made getting Carson Palmer. Everybody would´ve accepted getting all those picks, but except the Raiders themself, nobody would´ve actually given the picks away for an over the hill burnout…)

By playing Dynasty FF, we´re trying to do it as realistic as possible, we want it to be competitive. And that actually means always trying to make a good deal for your team and not give the other party more than needed…
Our job as GM´s isn´t giving away presents, its always to make your team better. And if that means to trade away players who might lose value soon, than you should try to do exactly that. Otherwise you can book a grave on the next graveyard for your team right away(kind of….).

note: I´m not defending doing offers like Isaac Bruce for Adrian Peterson((which I received a few years ago…Bruce was still active back then) which only real nutters or people on dope would accept… those should be kinda “banned” from being proposed. BUT… trying to get a first rounder for Tim Hightower, which I did, shouldn´t be a subject of discussion at all…

10 years ago

Ive sold ice to an Eskimo in my time…
I’ve also sold water to a fish in an aquarium…

Love this article

RBrown
Reply to  @chriscrane27
10 years ago

How bout salt to a slug?

Jeff
10 years ago

Could not disagree with this part more “I challenge each of the owners to be creative and only propose offers they themselves would accept. That is the litmus test – if you would not accept the trade offer, why do you think the other owner would?” The whole point of trading someone is based on a pesonal value scale. Crazy idea here, but maybe someone values another player differently then you do. Thats how trades get done. So even if you wouldnt take the deal you are offering does not mean that is it not fair. I hate when people say this but hey! Guess im the used car salesman!!!

tidewaterjc
Reply to  Jeff
10 years ago

Great point Jeff, and you are absolutely correct. Personal player values greatly affect the balance of trades and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have been on both ends of trades, as many have, but most of my losses are due to a particular “honkness” for a certain player or dislike for the one I am giving up.

By challenging owners to present offers they themselves would accept, doesn’t mean it is balanced or fair by any means. Additionally, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are a “used car salesman” either. It is a challenge to look at the other teams needs and present an offer that “could” be beneficial to both sides. The true “used car salesman” is only interested in their gain regardless what the other team is getting.

The intent of the article serves as an advisory to dynasty newbs to thoroughly look at trades offers and the ones they are presenting, nothing more.

Josh G
Reply to  Jeff
10 years ago

Totally agree..especially when (for example) someone may be thin at RB and you may be thin at WR..so you swap…Forte for Nicks or for Harvin and Steve Johnson. It may benefit both teams..one needs a good rb, the other needs either an elite wr or perhaps 2 pretty reasonable starters even if neither are top 10.

The 2 for 1 can totally work if one team is totally beset by injuries, drafted/performing poorly..whatever. I have successfully done it numerous times where both owners are happy and neither owner is a newbie..etc.

Plus it all depends if a team is rebuilding, or is only 1 or 2 pieces away.

Josh G
Reply to  Josh G
10 years ago

Forgot to add…future draft picks are terrific. I won my league this past year..and still managed to trade away CK2K and Jamaal Charles this year for players and picks. I ended up with Forte and McFadden (again, injuries hit them too..but managed to cobble enough points and players to win)..AND have the 1.1 and 1.2 picks this upcoming year.

All depends on who you are dealing with and the strategies and timelines in play.

fffool
10 years ago

Good Stuff. I enjoy receiving frivolous trade offers; they’re usually good for a chuckle when I determine what the other guy’s up to, and they tell me what he covets from my team. Usually a (sightly weighted) counteroffer sets the parameters for future offers he might send me (which is practically never- BECAUSE HE’S A USED CAR SALESMAN! lol). If my player IS on the block, the other guy’s response to my counter is usually “You want too much”, and I don’t hear from him again until his next rip-off offer screams “That player is one of the best in the game”. It’s poetic justice, ff style. Other favorites of mine include “You’d have to add (his best comparable player) to get that player”, and “I wouldn’t take that trade if you included (Aaron Rodgers, etc.)”. Of course, simply rejecting the trade with a “You Suck” in the comment box kinda says it all, too.

VoiceofUnreason
10 years ago

Nothing wrong if the other guy makes the trade. What I do have a problem with is people getting 1st rounders from guys who have no intention of playing next year. Which is where I think a lot of rip-offs happen. To me, it’s unfair to the rest of the league. I think prepaying a year or a half year deposit is the way to go and takes care of a lot of those problems.

John T
10 years ago

Jc…Great job!! Hope to see a follow-up article this next season..

Boomer
10 years ago

I agree with most of this article. I do have a problem with the two or three for one offer though. Now if you’re offering Johnny Knox three times for a stud then yes it should be rejected. However, if you’re offering two or three young players with ‘A’ potential then there’s nothing wrong with that. I personally just dealt Arian Foster and DaRel Scott (needed to deal two players) for McFadden, Torrey Smith, and 1.2. All three of those have top 10 potential and makes it fair.

jtmcnasty
10 years ago

I hope no one in my league reads this.
Wheeling and DEALING , son!

10 years ago

I have a contending team that was offered a trade I need some help figuring out. I was offered Newton, pick 2.11, 4.7 and Holmes for Vick, pick 1.2, and Maclin. I was planning on taking either Luck or RG3 at 1.2, and because of my league free agent rules I will not probably be able to retain Vick anyway. Should I be jumping on this trade or pass.

Boomer
Reply to  Chris W.
10 years ago

Jump on it.

neil
10 years ago

I’m Neil and I’m a used car salesman.

RedWass
10 years ago

I have a very solid team in a 10-team second year dynasty league, format 1QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 1WR/TE. Roster:
QB – E. Manning, P. Manning, R. Fitzpatrick
RB – A. Foster, F. Gore, R. Bush, S. Jackson, P. Thomas
WR – D. Bryant, M. Colston, S. Holmes, A. Boldin, Plax, DHB
TE – R. Gronkowski, M. Lewis

I was offered Antonio Brown, pick 1.09, L. Blount and G. Little for Gronkowski. Sound like a used car salesman? any thoughts?

the clarion contrarian
Reply to  RedWass
10 years ago

very tempting – gronkowski will never be worth more than he is today – I think I would want to wait until 1:9 was on the clock – but even then tempted to pass espcially if tampa drafts or signs a back of any consequence

Krcil
Reply to  RedWass
10 years ago

Since Antonio Brown & Little are high on my Watch list, I would be very tempted by this and that draft pick is especially valuable this year (in my opinion).

If I was in your shoes, I would think they are desperate on getting an elite TE and I would try to milk it for a bit more. For example, throw in a low level guy and try to get a 2nd rounder added to it.

Will
10 years ago

My favorite is special to my league, since we all have eachothers #’s trades usually are born thru a text message along the lines of, “Hey you looking to move Larry Fitz?” to which ill respond no.

But this type of used car salesman never actually tells you what hes offering no names, he says things along the lines “Im willing to offer you 4 top 20 WR and a top 15 RB” and since I basically know his team the package he is offering consists of guys of Jeremy Maclins level and Tim Hightower. Everyone should be on the look out bc ive been seeing this alot more with other ppl in my league too.

former poster
10 years ago

WOW!!! This is the most insulting thing I’ve read. I’ve been selling cars for 15 years and have a broad client base of customers. Many of my customers have bought multiple cars from me and send me multiple referrals of their friends and family. The funny thing is most car salesman sell both new and used but thats not the point. The point is that this whole thing is insulting to the people in my profession that care about their customers and do what ever they can to help them. The fact is that buying a car of any kind is generally the 2nd biggest purchase they can make besides buying a home. There’s alot of us that know this and conduct ourselves accordingly. I can tell i don’t visit the main site often because this is the first time I’ve seen this piece of garbage but I’ve been a long time poster in the forums and there’s no way I’m giving this site any more page views and certainly not giving them $20. How do i delete my account here?

DLF_KenK
Reply to  former poster
10 years ago

I can certainly speak for JC when I say he didn’t mean to offend anyone with this article. The angle was certainly speaking to the “old school stereotype” based on his own, personal dealings.

I know from experience there are good and bad people who work in ANY aspect of sales. Perhaps a different angle would have been sales in general, however, JC was really talking about his own personal, first hand experiences with certain people in car sales.

He obviously hadn’t dealt with you or any of the other good guys! He used those experiences for a basis to get across his point about trades and those who take advantage of others, which was the real point of the article.

While he could have just as easily chosen another profession or angle, those life experiences came as the easiest comparison to him personally.

Again, we certainly didn’t mean to offend anyone and would extend an apology.

Sensei_John_Kreese
Reply to  DLF_KenK
10 years ago

Huge loss here.

Ken, you really didn’t have to apologize for that.

This guy has obviously been watching too much Nancy Grace.

tidewaterjc
Reply to  DLF_KenK
10 years ago

Ken – you said it perfectly. There is good and bad in any profession.

Example:

I recently posted in the Off Topic thread regarding the Army Staff Sergeant that killed 16 villagers in Afghanistan. Not because I had anything to do with this atrocious act, but because it has potentially long reaching damaging affects on the american peoples view of those that serve the US military and will serve as a catalyst for Al Qeida and other terrorist groups much like the Abu Grab prison photos did.

Unfortunately, some take offense rather easily when no harm was intended or truly caused.

Apologies to any who took offense to the article

clarion contrarion
Reply to  former poster
10 years ago

hey former poster
lighten up francis – I spent over a decade in the car biz and the reputation is well deserved – their are tons of genuine great people in that biz but as in any biz there are jackwagons – Due to the fact that for most it is the 2nd biggest purchase people feel the sting a bit more when they get messed over and make a bigger deal out of it when it happens.I doubt this site will sway the publiuc opinion of you or your customer service quality the owners of the site can only hope.
Cars are machines and machines fail especially when not properly cared for – rarely did I have a client come in and say well shucks I haven’t changed the oil or rotated the tires since GW was president not really sure why my car quit . DUH it was making a funny sound since july 4th weekend and then quit over the easter weekend that salesman really screwed me over is more the norm .

former poster sounds like the comment hit to close to home perhaps – you guys do a great job on the forum and the site – please do not apologize for telling the truth that is the death of honesty knocking at your door – whayt is next being afraid to say that 30 year rbs backs are nearing the endbecause LT or michael turner might read the comment .

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